Tuesday, 27th March 2007Hotmail Blocking Email and Blaming Symantec Brightmail
Hotmail's new completely irresponsible stance on spam
Today, all emails sent to Hotmail.com email addresses from any email account on my email server started being refused. Nothing has changed on the server, the server is not blacklisted anywhere, the server has not been compromised in anyway and has not been used to send even large legitimate mailouts, let alone spam.
Upon checking the mail server log I found that Hotmail is terminating all connections with the server with the following error message:
550 Your e-mail was rejected for policy reasons on this gateway. Reasons for rejection may be related to content such as obscene language, graphics, or spam-like characteristics *or* other reputation problems. For sender troubleshooting information, pl
Note that Hotmail cut off the rest of the message - annoyingly enough, the bit that tells you how to troubleshoot the problem.
As mentioned, this problem affects all users sending email from my server despite in Hotmail response below, "Anja" claiming the blocking is not per IP address, how can this be when:
- All emails sent via my server (irrespective of domain, content, intended recipient or SPF setup) are bounced by Hotmail. - All emails sent via my ISPs server (irrespective of domain, content, intended recipient or SPF setup) are accepte by Hotmail.
Hotmail Answers and Answers with Waffle
Upon contacting their technical support I got this very unhelpful "passing the buck" email in response:
Hello Bob,
Thank you for contacting Windows Live Hotmail Domain Support. We have identified, that messages from your IP 64.xx.xx.xx are being blocked based on the recommendations of the Symantec Brightmail filter.
The only way to stop this process is to contact Symantec and have them remove the recommendation that your IP be blocked. If you wish to be unblocked by Symantec you must work with Symantec, and not MSN Hotmail. The instructions to do this are below. Please follow these instructions as closely as possible as any deviation will result in delays in resolving your issue. To do this, please send an e-mail message to: investigation@review.symantec.com
After you've sent the identified messages to them, please immediately follow with another message which specifies the Subject lines of the messages sent and your contact information to enable them to follow up with you. When contacting Symantec please use email sent from time period when the block was initiated. Failure to do so may impact Symantec’s ability to correctly identify the source of the block. Their team will open the submission and render a judgment, or possibly request additional information. Do not send Symantec a list of blocked IP’s as they are not actually blocking the IP’s and such information will not help them to resolve your issue.
Until Symantec goes through the process of investigation and renders a decision on whether they will keep blocking your emails or not, there will be nothing I, or anyone else at MSN Hotmail, can do to change the delivery behavior of your messages. In addition, there is nothing that I, or anyone else at MSN Hotmail, can do to affect their decision. Symantec is a completely separate company from Microsoft and MSN Hotmail and their decisions are intentionally kept out of the hands of our staff. I hope that the information that I have provided to you has been helpful. You may also be able to find additional information on common delivery questions at the Hotmail Postmaster Site found at: http://postmaster.msn.com/. I would like to highlight some key areas which I believe are appropriate to your company.
Hotmail has created the Smart Network Data Services program. This is a service that helps legitimate email senders work with their customers and partners to reduce spam originating from their IP. http://postmaster.msn.com/snds/. This program allows a sender to monitor the ‘health’ of their IPs. Monitor user complaints. Hotmail also has a sender complaint feedback loop program Junk Email Reporting Program (JMRP). Enrollment in this, free of charge, program will benefit you as a sender as it will keep your e-mail lists updated and populated with interested MSN Hotmail Customers. Participation in this program will remove those MSN Hotmail Customers who do not want to receive e-mails from your company. If you are interested in joining this program please visit
Http://support.msn.com/eform.aspx?productKey=edfsjmrpp&page=support_home_options_form_byemail&ct=eformts. While using the SNDS tool, enrollment in the JMRP or having your IPs registered with Sender ID will not allow emails from your mail servers to bypass our filters, these are in place to help legitimate companies deliver their emails to Hotmail Customers.SenderScore Certified Mail Program. Many legitimate mailers and marketers have qualified and joined this “white listing” program to improve mail del iverability and decrease email from being filtered to the Junk E-mail Folder. Sender Score is a third party program, administered by Return Path. Sender Score (www.senderscorecertified.com) is the only White Listing service to which we subscribe.
The troubleshooting steps in this email are recommendations only. Microsoft makes no guarantees that following these steps will guarantee deliverability to MSN, Hotmail, or Live.com customers.
Best regards,
Anja
Windows Live Hotmail Domain Support
I'm not alone
It seems that plenty of other people have been frustrated with the same problem:
Yep, same for me. They have blocked all mails to hotmail.com and hotmail.co.uk This was working fine last week but not now. I've installed nothing new so where does the problem lie?
11
Bob, 08:20
06 October 2008
Ian,
I completely agree - reminds me of AOLs stance a few years back. I'm sure there are dice involved when they decide who to block and who not to.
10
Ian, 03:27
06 October 2008
I have two dedicated servers, and hotmail started bouncing my emails yesterday. I'm not listed in the any of the spam databases, and all domains have correctly configured SPFs. I'm still waiting to hear from hotmail, and am guessing I'll get the same cut and paste message as you.
I'm not sure what Symantec and Hotmail are playing at, but they both need to get their act together. Hotmail should stop using Symantec until it can be established that the system works.
9
Tim, 19:32
16 March 2008
Same problem here. Glad to know it's not just us.
8
Jon Harwood, 04:14
03 January 2008
We have started experiencing the same problem since the middle of last week, send an email gets unblocked and within 48hrs its blocked again. Our system is sat behind two firewalls with only one machine authorised to send emails.
7
Jeff, 11:31
04 December 2007
Similar issue here.
They are now calling their spam filtering solution “SmartFilter”.
Most of our e-mail goes into the junkmail folder even though we only send 1-10 single e-mails a month to Hotmail/LiveMail (MSN) customers. Some of our e-mails don’t even make it to the junkmail folder.
We are now on our fourth temporary mitigation. During the mitigation process, all of our mail will make it to the customers’ Inboxes. Once the mitigation process has ended (2-4 weeks), our e-mail goes into the junkmail folder again.
Our e-mail server is set up correctly and so are our MX and SPF records. Microsoft will not comment on what is causing the issue. I think it is because we use Verizon Business DSL. Some of their IP address blocks are black listed on some block lists because some of their subscribers are spammers. Funny thing is… I personally have many e-mail accounts with a lot of different companies. I get way more spam in my Verizon Inbox than I do with any other account I have. They also use BrightMail.
For our e-mail server, we use a couple of block lists, SpamAssain, CLamAV and ClamSup. No spam makes it to our Inbox and we have “0” false positives.
I really don’t know what the solution is for companies with hundreds of thousands or millions of e-mail accounts. There is just so much spam to deal with; it’s really tuff for the companies offering filtering solutions to stay ahead of the spammers. As soon as a new spamming approach is dealt with, the a**hole spammers come up with a new way around the filters. However, I must say, we had more problems getting mail delivered to MSN customers than with any other provider. Actually, if we run into a problem with getting our mail delivered to other ISP’s (only three so far), they take care of the problem immediately with “0” reoccurrences. They just whitelist our IP address. One would think MSN would take that approach instead of wasting man hours on writing the same countless e-mails it takes to get a temporary mitigation. If they are willing to setup a temporary mitigation four times for the same IP address, why not just whitelist that IP address?
6
C.Cavanagh, 06:04
26 September 2007
I have been experiencing the same annoying problems. Hotmail emails reach me but when i try to reply thay are blocked.
5
Kris Taylor, 22:47
31 May 2007
I'm having the exact same problem too. Same response from Microsoft. Tried emailing the brightmail investigate too, these are messages in response to a message from a hotmail account (my friend e-mails me I cant email him back).
Stupid people who cant handle a bit of spam... they want software so good it filters out EVERYONE's messages that contains EVERYTHING. Next step towards Microsoft's golden panacea of e-mail postage, I guess, where you pay 5 cents per message to send to make sure it gets through. What a joke.
4
Bob, 13:37
17 April 2007
Hi Chris,
Don't worry - I wasn't fooled by Microsoft's response but be aware that it is a Symantec service that makes the decision to block you.
I did get a response from Symantec in the end who simply said that my server appeared to have sent spam (a sort of "you deserved it" response).
Unfortunately none of this helps - the block was removed after 48 hours (well before I received a response from Symantec) but I still don't know what caused the problem.
If Hotmail is the problem, Gmail is the answer! :-D
3
Christopher Smith, 13:36
17 April 2007
I also have this problem and it is NOT from symantec. When I reply to an e-mail sent from hotmail the message goes through fine. When I initiate an email it gets blocked. DON'T let Microsoft fool you! it's their fault.
2
Christopher Smith, 13:29
17 April 2007
I also have this problem and it is NOT from symantec. When I reply to an e-mail sent from hotmail the message goes through fine. When I initiate an email it gets blocked. DON'T let Microsoft fool you! it's their fault.
1
christ, 14:23
11 April 2007
I also have this problem.. But its my second.. My first is solved since a few hours... Hotmail accepted my message but it never arrived! Now the accept it but it is placed in the junk folder. witch they blame symantec for.
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Login To Your AccountTuesday, 27th March 2007Hotmail Blocking Email and Blaming Symantec Brightmail
Hotmail's new completely irresponsible stance on spam
Today, all emails sent to Hotmail.com email addresses from any email account on my email server started being refused. Nothing has changed on the server, the server is not blacklisted anywhere, the server has not been compromised in anyway and has not been used to send even large legitimate mailouts, let alone spam.
Upon checking the mail server log I found that Hotmail is terminating all connections with the server with the following error message:
550 Your e-mail was rejected for policy reasons on this gateway. Reasons for rejection may be related to content such as obscene language, graphics, or spam-like characteristics *or* other reputation problems. For sender troubleshooting information, pl
Note that Hotmail cut off the rest of the message - annoyingly enough, the bit that tells you how to troubleshoot the problem.
As mentioned, this problem affects all users sending email from my server despite in Hotmail response below, "Anja" claiming the blocking is not per IP address, how can this be when:
- All emails sent via my server (irrespective of domain, content, intended recipient or SPF setup) are bounced by Hotmail.
- All emails sent via my ISPs server (irrespective of domain, content, intended recipient or SPF setup) are accepte by Hotmail.
Hotmail Answers and Answers with Waffle
Upon contacting their technical support I got this very unhelpful "passing the buck" email in response:
Hello Bob,
Thank you for contacting Windows Live Hotmail Domain Support. We have identified, that messages from your IP 64.xx.xx.xx are being blocked based on the recommendations of the Symantec Brightmail filter.
The only way to stop this process is to contact Symantec and have them remove the recommendation that your IP be blocked. If you wish to be unblocked by Symantec you must work with Symantec, and not MSN Hotmail. The instructions to do this are below. Please follow these instructions as closely as possible as any deviation will result in delays in resolving your issue. To do this, please send an e-mail message to: investigation@review.symantec.com
After you've sent the identified messages to them, please immediately follow with another message which specifies the Subject lines of the messages sent and your contact information to enable them to follow up with you. When contacting Symantec please use email sent from time period when the block was initiated. Failure to do so may impact Symantec’s ability to correctly identify the source of the block. Their team will open the submission and render a judgment, or possibly request additional information. Do not send Symantec a list of blocked IP’s as they are not actually blocking the IP’s and such information will not help them to resolve your issue.
Until Symantec goes through the process of investigation and renders a decision on whether they will keep blocking your emails or not, there will be nothing I, or anyone else at MSN Hotmail, can do to change the delivery behavior of your messages. In addition, there is nothing that I, or anyone else at MSN Hotmail, can do to affect their decision. Symantec is a completely separate company from Microsoft and MSN Hotmail and their decisions are intentionally kept out of the hands of our staff. I hope that the information that I have provided to you has been helpful. You may also be able to find additional information on common delivery questions at the Hotmail Postmaster Site found at: http://postmaster.msn.com/. I would like to highlight some key areas which I believe are appropriate to your company.
Hotmail has created the Smart Network Data Services program. This is a service that helps legitimate email senders work with their customers and partners to reduce spam originating from their IP. http://postmaster.msn.com/snds/. This program allows a sender to monitor the ‘health’ of their IPs. Monitor user complaints. Hotmail also has a sender complaint feedback loop program Junk Email Reporting Program (JMRP). Enrollment in this, free of charge, program will benefit you as a sender as it will keep your e-mail lists updated and populated with interested MSN Hotmail Customers. Participation in this program will remove those MSN Hotmail Customers who do not want to receive e-mails from your company. If you are interested in joining this program please visit
Http://support.msn.com/eform.aspx?productKey=edfsjmrpp&page=support_home_options_form_byemail&ct=eformts. While using the SNDS tool, enrollment in the JMRP or having your IPs registered with Sender ID will not allow emails from your mail servers to bypass our filters, these are in place to help legitimate companies deliver their emails to Hotmail Customers.SenderScore Certified Mail Program. Many legitimate mailers and marketers have qualified and joined this “white listing” program to improve mail del iverability and decrease email from being filtered to the Junk E-mail Folder. Sender Score is a third party program, administered by Return Path. Sender Score (www.senderscorecertified.com) is the only White Listing service to which we subscribe.
The troubleshooting steps in this email are recommendations only. Microsoft makes no guarantees that following these steps will guarantee deliverability to MSN, Hotmail, or Live.com customers.
Best regards,
Anja
Windows Live Hotmail Domain Support
I'm not alone
It seems that plenty of other people have been frustrated with the same problem:
http://www.mail-archive.com/imail_forum@list.ipswitch.com/msg105809.html
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-September/046689.html
aota.net/forums/showthread.php?s=9d6811e8428124f7a5cc4e5ac8dd580d&t=17965
Comment On This Article
Article Comments
Mervyn Hopkins, 12:32
13 October 2008
Yep, same for me. They have blocked all mails to hotmail.com and hotmail.co.uk This was working fine last week but not now. I've installed nothing new so where does the problem lie?
Bob, 08:20
06 October 2008
Ian,
I completely agree - reminds me of AOLs stance a few years back. I'm sure there are dice involved when they decide who to block and who not to.
Ian, 03:27
06 October 2008
I have two dedicated servers, and hotmail started bouncing my emails yesterday. I'm not listed in the any of the spam databases, and all domains have correctly configured SPFs. I'm still waiting to hear from hotmail, and am guessing I'll get the same cut and paste message as you.
I'm not sure what Symantec and Hotmail are playing at, but they both need to get their act together. Hotmail should stop using Symantec until it can be established that the system works.
Tim, 19:32
16 March 2008
Same problem here. Glad to know it's not just us.
Jon Harwood, 04:14
03 January 2008
We have started experiencing the same problem since the middle of last week, send an email gets unblocked and within 48hrs its blocked again. Our system is sat behind two firewalls with only one machine authorised to send emails.
Jeff, 11:31
04 December 2007
Similar issue here.
They are now calling their spam filtering solution “SmartFilter”.
Most of our e-mail goes into the junkmail folder even though we only send 1-10 single e-mails a month to Hotmail/LiveMail (MSN) customers. Some of our e-mails don’t even make it to the junkmail folder.
We are now on our fourth temporary mitigation. During the mitigation process, all of our mail will make it to the customers’ Inboxes. Once the mitigation process has ended (2-4 weeks), our e-mail goes into the junkmail folder again.
Our e-mail server is set up correctly and so are our MX and SPF records. Microsoft will not comment on what is causing the issue. I think it is because we use Verizon Business DSL. Some of their IP address blocks are black listed on some block lists because some of their subscribers are spammers. Funny thing is… I personally have many e-mail accounts with a lot of different companies. I get way more spam in my Verizon Inbox than I do with any other account I have. They also use BrightMail.
For our e-mail server, we use a couple of block lists, SpamAssain, CLamAV and ClamSup. No spam makes it to our Inbox and we have “0” false positives.
I really don’t know what the solution is for companies with hundreds of thousands or millions of e-mail accounts. There is just so much spam to deal with; it’s really tuff for the companies offering filtering solutions to stay ahead of the spammers. As soon as a new spamming approach is dealt with, the a**hole spammers come up with a new way around the filters. However, I must say, we had more problems getting mail delivered to MSN customers than with any other provider. Actually, if we run into a problem with getting our mail delivered to other ISP’s (only three so far), they take care of the problem immediately with “0” reoccurrences. They just whitelist our IP address. One would think MSN would take that approach instead of wasting man hours on writing the same countless e-mails it takes to get a temporary mitigation. If they are willing to setup a temporary mitigation four times for the same IP address, why not just whitelist that IP address?
C.Cavanagh, 06:04
26 September 2007
I have been experiencing the same annoying problems. Hotmail emails reach me but when i try to reply thay are blocked.
Kris Taylor, 22:47
31 May 2007
I'm having the exact same problem too. Same response from Microsoft. Tried emailing the brightmail investigate too, these are messages in response to a message from a hotmail account (my friend e-mails me I cant email him back).
Stupid people who cant handle a bit of spam... they want software so good it filters out EVERYONE's messages that contains EVERYTHING. Next step towards Microsoft's golden panacea of e-mail postage, I guess, where you pay 5 cents per message to send to make sure it gets through. What a joke.
Bob, 13:37
17 April 2007
Hi Chris,
Don't worry - I wasn't fooled by Microsoft's response but be aware that it is a Symantec service that makes the decision to block you.
I did get a response from Symantec in the end who simply said that my server appeared to have sent spam (a sort of "you deserved it" response).
Unfortunately none of this helps - the block was removed after 48 hours (well before I received a response from Symantec) but I still don't know what caused the problem.
If Hotmail is the problem, Gmail is the answer! :-D
Christopher Smith, 13:36
17 April 2007
I also have this problem and it is NOT from symantec. When I reply to an e-mail sent from hotmail the message goes through fine. When I initiate an email it gets blocked. DON'T let Microsoft fool you! it's their fault.
Christopher Smith, 13:29
17 April 2007
I also have this problem and it is NOT from symantec. When I reply to an e-mail sent from hotmail the message goes through fine. When I initiate an email it gets blocked. DON'T let Microsoft fool you! it's their fault.
christ, 14:23
11 April 2007
I also have this problem.. But its my second.. My first is solved since a few hours... Hotmail accepted my message but it never arrived! Now the accept it but it is placed in the junk folder. witch they blame symantec for.
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